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Thursday, June 14th 2012

21:44

Chips from the Workshop: Origin of a Story

  • STATE OF EXISTENCE: Still crashed
  • IN THE BACKDROP: Burn Notice
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Let me run a puzzle past you and give you a chance to solve it. Wilhelm Schmidt's contribution to ethnology lay largely in establishing a chronological sequence among various culture found in a certain geographical area. A part of that process is to identify which culture originated a particular cultural feature, which is then going to be distributed ("diffused") with some changes among adjacent ones.

So, here's an easy example. Imagine four adjacent groups, inventively called A, B, C, and D, whose lore includes similar stories, which I will summarize as follows:

  • A: A girl went to the garden to pick some berries.
  • B: A girl went to the garden to pick some flowers.
  • C: A girl went to the meadow to pick some flowers.
  • D: A boy went to the garden to pick some flowers.

Can we figure out which culture probably had the story first? All other things being equal, the obvious choice is B. It is the one that appears to have the basic elements, and the the other each modified one element.

A: girl, garden, berriesB: girl, garden, flowers
C: girl, meadow, flowersD: boy, garden, flowers

If the culture of origin were A, then the story would have to undergo one change to get to B's version, and then another change to get to either C or D. A similar complexity would obtain if either C or D were the origin, but only one change is required with B as the origin, so that's the obvious choice.

lilies

Unfortunately things are not as simple as that in reality. So, let's take a look at how things may actually look in the field:

  • A: A girl went to the garden to pick some berries.
  • B: A little girl ran to the garden to pick some berries and flowers.
  • C: The great hero went to the forest to find some mushrooms.
  • D: The ancestors told about a girl in a garden.

So, now the question is, which of the above version is most likely the original one, and on what basis do you arrive at that conclusion?

Looking forward to your answers.

9 User Comments.

Posted by jimm wetherbee:

Win,

At least I know one reason why the first example is an oversimplification, it assumes a single origin (b) to (a), (c), and (d), rather the possibility of successive retellings or intermixing of the variations. In the second case (and I am likely as not wrong), I would pick (a) because it is the simplest (stories tend to get more elaborate in the retelling, especially when attempting to reconcile variants). That judgement could be wrong if both the flowers and the berries are integral to the story (though that begs the question of how, but story tellers have been known to either miss the point of the original telling or come up with a new interpretation, etc.). The last option (d) looks as if it were told from a distance, as if the story teller is underscoring just how old the story is, (b) has added details and (c) might have either combined the story of the girl with that of a hero (this seems to have happened with some characters in the Arthurian Legends) or the girl has morphed into something "bigger." Anyway, that is my guess. Now, tell me what predispositions lead me astray. :-)

--jimm
Friday, June 15th 2012 @ 8:30

Posted by Win Corduan:

Hmmm. I'm waiting for more attempts before I disclose what the best answer is. :)
Friday, June 15th 2012 @ 11:22

Posted by Raj Rao:

I eliminate (B) on account of Occam's razor.

I eliminate Con account of the idea that over time ... whats the word I am looking for? accretion? Not sure - but over time stuff builds up. So the little girl over time becomes a damsel or a princess or a hero. So I eliminate (C).

This leaves me with (A) an (D). That was a little hard to choose from. (A) is however more informative, so... (A) it is.

:-?

(Repost: not sure of the previous captcha worked)
Friday, June 15th 2012 @ 18:23

Posted by Win Corduan:

Raj,
Sorry your comment didn't show up immediately. I need to use a spam filter, but I don't know what algorithm it uses. Half the time it swallows my comments. Thanks for your good deduction. I'm still hoping for a few more to come in. :)
Friday, June 15th 2012 @ 22:56

Posted by Andi Eicher:

Win,

A seems the simplest one - you can see a bit of elaboration (Masala for us Indians) to make it into either B (for those who want more 'human interest') or into D (which could be true if a sufficient amount of time has gone by. The bouncer is your inclusion of C. So - is this the quelle or is A the source with C being a willful fable that only faintly reminds one of the original text? Looking at some of the ways that tales have developed in our indic mythology, I would have to say that it is not so far-fetched a thought. Many a small leap has been magnified to a jump over the straits to Ceylon...

The other possibility is that you are dealing with a completely different story that has been passed down through the ages. So C is detritus that has washed up as you have been gathering tales.:o:o
Saturday, June 16th 2012 @ 8:40

Posted by Win Corduan:

Good thoughts, Andi-ji!I'm definitely intrigued, just in and of itself, by the transitions to Lanka. I'm impressed by everyone's reasoning so far. Does anyone else have a good idea? Please keep in mind: The usual criteria for textual criticism don't apply since we clearly have four different sources; furthermore, the usual criteria for establishing the value of historical sources don't apply either since we are not looking for the truth of a source within one culture, but these are four "artifacts" inside of four different cultures. :)
Saturday, June 16th 2012 @ 12:49

Posted by Win Corduan:

I didn't see these comments on Facebook until after I wrote the response after Andi's answers. I'm placing them here so that everyone can see them when I give an overall response later, but I'll call the X, Y, and Z:

X: That's tricky. I decided to disregard C entirely, just because it seemed like an outlier. B was very specific. A seemed good, but D's simplicity lends itself to being complicated and built upon, so I'm going with D.
Y: An amature stab... I say...A...maybe? Because the shorter reading always bears attention...like B, it's facts are simple and not particularly heroic. B. Is plausible. Are extra details a sign of better recollection or human embellishment? ...like a later story teller trying to re-invigorate an old story maybe even with honest intentions. In the end, the longer reading is always suspect at best... Not C....too epic. D...is like a vague memory. Too many details lost. Too indifferent to the details as to be understood as important.
Z: D, because it has the common elements of A, B, and D which are a girl and a garden, and it is the shortest statement of the four (relative to the total number of letters and words) (people and cultures have a tendency to add things to stories over the years and make them longer and more complicates, although this is not always the case). It is also the simplest statement overall.
Saturday, June 16th 2012 @ 13:07

Posted by wincorduan:

Let me add one more response and then I'll start putting an answer together.
"I still like B. A and D can easily flow from B and are both true if B is true. C seems unrelated to all of them with the exception of "seeing some type of plant life". I doubt any culture would associate a girl as a hero."
Saturday, June 16th 2012 @ 17:47

Posted by horoscope:

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Monday, June 25th 2012 @ 8:53

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